21/12/2011 The Dark Edges of Society
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ISD Athechu > Welcome to ISD Seminar on The Dark Edges of Society we will begin shortly. I will be your host while ISD Rodiryth will be the moderator for the Seminar Q&A Channel. Please join Seminar Q&A to ask your questions there.
ISD Athechu > We shall begin now :). I would like to thank everyone for joining. I will be your host and be talking about some of the dark edges of society in EVE.
ISD Athechu > ISD Rodiryth will be doing the moderation in Seminar Q&A if you wish to ask a question please join that channel and we will answer your questions as best as we can.
ISD Athechu > Today's topic is The Dark Edges of Society, This will include notes on Mercenaries, Hi-Sec/Low-Sec PVP, War Decs, Scams and Corporation theft and espionage.
ISD Athechu > We will start todays Seminar on Mercenaries or Mercs
ISD Athechu > Mercs are pilots that will fight for you for the right price. Each corporation or alliance has different prices for what it will cost you to hire them.
ISD Athechu > They have several different concepts such as Area Denial, POS Defence, POS Attacking, General Disruptions and more depending on their size.
ISD Athechu > There are a few terms I would like to define. First off is Asset Denial. This is usually dealing with an offensive operation to prevent the target form doing the activity that they wish. For instance mining operations or NPC ratting.
ISD Athechu > Damage usually means the amount of isk that the Merc group has destroyed. This is usually measured in isk value and can be found on the alliance/corporation killboard.
ISD Athechu > Contracts are the agreement between the Merc Alliance/Corporation and you.
ISD Athechu > Most Merc groups(not saying all of them) usually operate out of Hi-Sec.
ISD Athechu > You might ask where do I go to hire a Mercenary? There are several places that you can go.
ISD Athechu > First place is Crime and Punishment on the EVE forums. This is were a lot of the "lawless" people hangout. Many mercenary groups have a thread there offering their services as wel as people posting looking for a Mercenary group to accept a contract.
ISD Rodiryth > Grey Beard asks, "How is it Mercs (Which provide a rather standard service) are considered for dark edges but pirates arent?"
ISD Athechu > Good question, Well some people believe that both groups are in the dark edges. As the tactics that some Player pirates use are used by Mercs. They are considered the dark edges because they are usually doing things that will really annoy you.
ISD Athechu > Just as declaring a war on a peaceful mining corporation.
ISD Athechu > The only difference between them is that pirates usually go -10.0 on their security status while Mercs do not. It's kinda like a different type of piracy.
ISD Athechu > There are various channels that people have where you can hire a Merc group. The most noticable is a player channel called Merc Contracts.
ISD Athechu > Asking around is another good way to find Merc groups. As usually your friends/contacts or other players can give you recommendation on a good group who can meet your needs.
ISD Athechu > Zydrine just said that a good number of pirates stay in Hi-Sec. This is true but usually most people try to kill them. They usually are flying fast ships so they won't get killed. Some stay in hi-sec just to pod gank now that killmails show implants.
ISD Athechu > Elise Randolph asks: How much do mercenaries generally get paid?
ISD Athechu > Well this really depends on the group. All groups have different prices. Some have a base price + War Dec fee.
ISD Athechu > Some get a bonus for doing X amount of isk damages or for killing X player specifically.
ISD Athechu > So it really depends on what the contract is and what the terms are between both you can the merc group.
ISD Athechu > We shall move on to Hi-Sec/Low Sec PVP.
ISD Athechu > The biggest question I usually see is how do War Decelerations work.
ISD Athechu > A war dec is a formal state of war between two player corporation/alliances.
ISD Athechu > This means that all assets that they have are elegable for attack. This usually includes POS's as outposts can only be found in 0.0 systems and anyone can attack those.
ISD Athechu > Corporations can have up to 3 wars at the same time at 2 million isk against another corporation or 50 million isk against an alliance.
ISD Athechu > Alliances can have an unlimited number of wars at 50 million isk each.
ISD Athechu > The equation is B* (N+1) * (W+1) to caluclate the cost of a war.
ISD Rodiryth > Elise Randolph asks, "Can you tell me about "war shields" and their efficacy?"
ISD Athechu > I will get to that in a moment.
ISD Athechu > B = Base price, N = Number of wars you currently have, W = number of wars currently aganst the target.
ISD Athechu > To answer Elise's question. A War Shield is when a corporation joins an alliance and then leaves it right away.
ISD Athechu > This is now legal to do after dicussion by the GM's. Basically you join an alliance in which the alliance accepts the entire war and then that corporation leaves the alliance. Then the war only sticks with that corporation for the next 24 hours.
ISD Rodiryth > Tiberius Amzadee asks, 'Is there a difference of mechanics on how wardecs work for example "High sec wardec" vs "low sec wardecs"'?
ISD Athechu > In that case the agressor corporation/allinace if they wish to re-declare war on that group will need to do do a War Dec again.
ISD Athechu > Tiberius - No there is not. The only difference is that you will not take a security hit while in low sec.
ISD Rodiryth > Kiyl asks, "So, to clarify, the war dec price can go up to infinity? Or there is a set price cap?"
ISD Athechu > Now for the war shield to work it will take your corporation 24 hours to be entered into the alliance. So if your enemy knows this is what your planning on doing they can have a vote put back in to re-dec your group. But we will talk about spies later.
ISD Athechu > Kiyl - As far as I know it can go upto infinity for an alliance but at some point it will just get too costly.
ISD Athechu > There is a cap for corporations as they can only have 3 wars at a time.
ISD Athechu > Now mutal wars are not considered in that cost calculation. So you don't have to pay for mutal wars.
ISD Athechu > To view a war you go to your corporation > Top there should be a tab called Wars. This will show you all the information on who you are at war with, when it started, when it should end(standard war is 8 days, 7 days plus one day cooldown)
ISD Rodiryth > Alexis Grimsdottir asks, "What is a 'mutual war'?"
ISD Athechu > assuming concord removes the war due to non-payment
ISD Athechu > Alexis - A mutal war is when both groups agree to the war. The most noticable would be Red vs Blue. Where they have a perma war against one another but it's considered mutal. This means that both sides do not need to pay for the war.
ISD Rodiryth > Michael Makanen asks, "Is the three war cap only for "outgoing wars" or can only 3 corps declare war on an un-allianced corp at a time?"
ISD Rodiryth > Ducan Valerius asks, "Does the 3 wars max rule mean that if 4 friendly corps wardec each other that they can't be wardeced by any one else?"
ISD Athechu > The cap is for outgoing wars only.
ISD Athechu > So you can have 3 wars outgoing but that won't mean that a group can't war dec your corporation.
ISD Athechu > Duncan - My previous answer should covered that. That the wars only work for outgoing not incoming.
ISD Athechu > To declare a war a corporation needs to put in a vote. This is done under the political tab I believe it's called. This takes 24 hours for the vote to pass by majority.
ISD Athechu > Once it passes the CEO needs to enact the war which will take another 24 hours for legal warfare to occur between the groups.
ISD Rodiryth > NEOCADE2 asks, "What's the cooldown time for wardecs?"
ISD Athechu > Alliances do not have to worry about the inital 24 hours they just can put a vote in and it will enact right away. This is usually done by someone inside the Executor corporation of the Alliance.
ISD Athechu > Neocade - Normal wars take 8 days assuming there is a non-payment. 7 days of war plus one day of cooldown. If a war is finished there is a 24 hour period of the cooldown.
ISD Athechu > Wars make combat legal in hi-sec and low-sec without taking a security hit. Now you have to remember this as this is the difference between the reds that you might see.
ISD Athechu > Solid Red players are "pirates" (those with -5.0 security standing or lower). While a flashing red is a war target. Flashing Orange is a milita war target.
ISD Athechu > You can attack any reds in hi-sec at any time. Flashing or solids. If they are just solid they might have also stolen a can or something from you.
ISD Athechu > Now there are 3 ways that you can get out of a war dec.
ISD Athechu > Well 4 ways
ISD Athechu > 1) Leave the corporation(as a player)
2) Leave the alliance(As a player)
3) Have the corporation leave the alliance(you will have a 24 hour cooldown if you do this so you will still be a valid target for 24 hours)
4) Disband the alliance/corporation
ISD Rodiryth > Vyrnas Starcaller asks, "Can a corp declare war on an individual? Or would they need to declare war on the corp?"
ISD Athechu > You will need to declare war on the entire corporation. Now this is kinda where a Merc would come into play. If you want a specific player killed you can say to them if you kill X player i will give you an Y amount of bonus isk for killing them.
ISD Athechu > If the corporation is in an alliance you will need to delcare war on the alliance.
ISD Rodiryth > Vyrnas Starcaller follows up with, "If a player is part of an NPC corporation and is targetted by a corp, will that NPC corp go to war against the PC corp targetting a player?"
ISD Athechu > Players cannot war dec NPC corporations. War decs only occur when it's a player corp/alliance v player corp/alliance
ISD Athechu > The only real exception to that is the milita
ISD Athechu > but we will not go over that in this seminar
ISD Athechu > If a corporation is at war and joins an alliance then the alliance inherits the war and all targets in the alliance are allow to attack the aggressing corporation. But you cannot join an alliance if you are the aggressing corporation.
ISD Athechu > You will receive a notification by Concord that the war has been retracted or that the aggressing corporation has failed to pay the bills and that Concord has retracted the corporation for them.
ISD Athechu > You will also recieve a notification if someone has declared war on you. Remember wars have 24 hours before the agressor can attack and 24 hours after the war has ended.
ISD Athechu > We will move on from War Decs for now I will take more questions about them at the end.
ISD Athechu > The next part is about scams.
ISD Athechu > A scam is basically what happens when someone takes advantage of your misplaced trust, temp confusion, or ignorance of the game rules. What happens is that someone usually will rob you of your isk or items.
ISD Athechu > An example of this could be someone buying a plex for 450,000,000 isk but say they are really buying it for only 450,000 isk. You got to read what the contract says to make sure that you are getting the correct amount of isk they are saying.
ISD Athechu > Or someone will say that they will double your isk if you send them X amount.
ISD Athechu > The best one so far that I personally have seen is the ponzi scheme by Phaser Inc.
ISD Athechu > More information on that can be located here: http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=4715&tid=7
ISD Athechu > Now a lot of people might think that scams are a viloation and are illegal. I hate to say it but they are legal and you just have to be very careful not to fall for the trap.
ISD Rodiryth > Nikolis Khardula asks, "What kinds of scams are legal and illegal in the game? How do we know where to draw the line when trying to swindle other players?"
ISD Athechu > Nikolis - Scams are legal. As long as it's inside the game. RTM or Real money trading is kinda of a scam on it's own as it's against the EULA.
ISD Athechu > I have seen people complain that their money was removed by a GM and now they are in the negative. So in otherwords don't fall for any RTM period. :)
ISD Athechu > People say that PLEXs is RMT. I will not comment on this point as it will just raise all kinds of questions and things I cannot answer. Simply put and I will not comment beyond this.
ISD Athechu > PLEXs are Gametime and not isk.
ISD Athechu > So when you buy a PLEX off of the market you are buying gametime in a tangable form.
ISD Athechu > That is all I have to say about that and i will not accept questions about that.
ISD Athechu > If someone does rob you like this there isn’t much anyone can do about it including the support teams. The GMs will not compensate you for the loss as well. So when accepting or looking at a contract please be very careful and read it word for word.
ISD Athechu > Especially if it's a contract.
ISD Athechu > Now I’m not saying everything is a scam but if it looks like a scam, smells like a scam it’s more than likely a scam. So just be careful about what your buying/selling and to who.
ISD Athechu > We will move onto Corporation theft and espionage.
ISD Athechu > This is where a player gains the trust of other players. This is where others infiltrate your corporation/alliance so they are able to report back to your enemies what you are up to or even steal valuables from you, it could be both.
ISD Athechu > There are several ways to avoid this.
ISD Athechu > First off check the employment history of the character. Also see what their past corporations were like. Mail the past CEO's and see what they have to say about the person.
ISD Athechu > Look at their contract informatoin see what they are selling or even buying. Search their name in google or EVE forums and see what you can dig up.
ISD Athechu > Check out their API key. Check out using their full API and try not to let them talk you into the limited API key only. You can't be hurt by giving your out API key information. With the new system in place you can even set your API key to expire on
ISD Athechu > a specific date
ISD Athechu > Check out their killboard as well and see what they have flown as well as what kills/losses they have. And worst comes to worst do some type of Audio Interview. EVE Voice works wonders.
ISD Rodiryth > Smack Cooper asks, "What is the API key?"
ISD Athechu > The API is a way for people to get data from New Eden. It's used to get the data and use it in third-party applications such as EFT and EveMon. It is a secure way to get your character data. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/API_Security
ISD Athechu > Well that is all I have for todays Seminar and I will be happy to take any questions that are left that you might have about anything that I talked about today.
ISD Rodiryth > Zydrine Megacyte asks, "Do you happen to have statistics on how Crucible has affected suicide gankings of pods?"
ISD Athechu > Zydrine - I do not have those statistics. There was a dev blog about them earlier in the month I believe that released the numbers but I do not know current statistics.
ISD Rodiryth > Nikolis Khardula asks, "When do seminars happen?"
ISD Athechu > Seminars happen when us volunteers can make time for them. We do have a limited number of topics but we are always open for suggestions of more ideas. Our thread is located here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=17608&find=u...
ISD Athechu > http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISD_Seminars is our wiki page.
ISD Rodiryth > Vyrnas Starcaller asks, "If one is a pirate, would this likely affect future employment in PC corporations? Due to their shady past?"
ISD Athechu > That would depend really on how the corporation works. If they are a group that will not accept any type of piracy then it will work against you. But if it's a pure PVP corporation and they don't care then it could work in your favor.
ISD Athechu > Really depends on the corporations policy on piracy/recruitment.
ISD Rodiryth > grugrugru asks, "How active in terms of pvp are most none-entry low sec systems?"
ISD Athechu > That I could not tell you as I do not know where people live. Some systems can be more active then others especially if that low sec system is near a 0.0 Enterence. Sometimes it could be just dead where you might not see a sole for hours on end.
ISD Rodiryth > Alexis Grimsdottir asks, "What about the locking of Corp BP's? are they purely to prevent corporate theft of those who can 'take' from hangers, and can they still be used for research if they merely have 'view' and factory manager?"
ISD Athechu > That is a one way of doing it as well. The other way is for keeping the Blueprint O's in a Directors hanger only where only the director or even just the CEO is allowed in. And then just hand out copies of that Blueprint.
ISD Athechu > I would like to thank ISD Rodiryth for moderation and for taking questions. i would like to thank everyone that came. If you have any feedback please leave it in our ISD Seminars thread in the EVE New Citizen Q&A forum.
ISD Athechu > https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=17608&find=unread
ISD Athechu > You are always welcome to Mail any ISD member ideas for new Seminars or any questions that you might have.
ISD Athechu > Fly safely and have a great night o/
